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Can be turned into value, owning a Tesla is a symbol of status.

A symbol of being aggressively middle class?

About half the ubers I take are Teslas. So, for me it largely signals "ride share" these days.

A symbol of being a white nationalist racist?

That escalated quickly. No I meant that owning a Tesla, like Apple or Prada is a status symbol. Income status. So if maintainance costs a lot it will reinforce that.

by no mean calling this out is advocating for status signaling , I myself would never buy a Tesla for this very reason.


That is what it's all about. Europe has realised it is dependent on potentially hostile U.S owned payment infrastructure.

We keep trying to fix this by building better, more open, interoperable services. The deeper fix is decoupling the Identity Layer from the Application Layer. With cryptographic proofs (e.g signing), we shouldn't be logging in to a Discord, or an alternative; we should be associating our cryptographic DID (a Decentralized Identifier, a public key) with a community.

What about applications? federations, or better: relays, would put an end to censorship. Encryption would put an end to surveillance. Cryptographic signing would improve authentication and security at wide as there would be no stored passwords to leak.

Until then, "protocols not services" will remain a privilege for the technical elite.


Very good business observation.

Plus employees who can inject hyped ideas is exactly the sort of efficient advertising openai relies on

It will hurt when self proclaimed coders realise 2 years later and all their savings burned on token they cannot all get meaningful traction.


They blocked your entire Gmail/Google account , not just the Gemini access?

That's a recipe for bots to ruin a lot of people's life.


$3 z.ai subscription? Sounds like it already burned $3k

I find those toys in perfect alignment with what LLM provider thrive for. Widespread token consumption explosion to demonstrate investors: see, we told you we were right to invest, let's open other giga factories.


It's using about 100M input tokens a day on glm 4.7 (glm 5 isn't available on my plan). It's sticking pretty close to the throttling limits that reset every 5 hours.

100M input tokens is $40 and anywhere from 2-6 kWh.

Certainly excessive for my $3/month.


How's it burned $3k on a $3/month subscription running for a few days?

I simply don't get how it could have run for quite a while and only cost $3. Z.ai offers some of the best model out there. Several dollars per million tokens, this sort of bot to generate code would burn millions in less than 30 minutes.

> Several dollars per million tokens

The flagship, glm-5, is $1/M input tokens. glm-4.7 is $0.60/M input tokens.


They have a coding plan

And the $3 plan also has significant latency compared with their higher tier plans.

None. That's why joining openai is the perfect fit.

I like the parallel as Joe Rogan is a trained actor who mastered the art of incorporating all the success factors of its predecessors. He saw obscure podcasts gaining intense viewership, he literally mimicked the patterns and merged it into the "best" of all. Even made his more mainstream, while fooling millions to feel they are part of a niche enlighten resistance community.

I recall listing to one of the now vintage series, I thought it was Joe Rogan himself. But it wasn't, the voice was a bit different but the pause, the reactions, the "waaah" with the overall tone of uncovering some secret truth.

It's a fascinating societal phenomenon, coupled with the American dream, yes.

In any case those examples are doing no good by setting themselves as models for millions to become obsessed in replicating. No surprise the rate of people in depression keeps going up.


Ultimately it is about you.

That you are entitled to have say too.

That such & such says should be followed, nope.

But one could say it's even less about you with close source.


When your product entered mainstream with integration that would yield millions when virtually obliged to get a license is typically what happens.

When backed by a company there is an ethical obligation to keep, at least maintenance. Of course legally they can do what they wish. It isn't unfair to call it bad practice.


There's no way that maintaining something is an ethical obligation, regardless of popularity. There is only legal obligation, for commercial products.

If offering a tie in thing supposedly free of charge without warning that would end once it serves a party less profit purpose then yes.

Ethics are not obligations, they are moral principles. Not having principles doesn't send you to prison that is why it isn't law. It makes you lose moral credit though.


That is ridiculous. If you buy a sandwich for a homeless person, you do not need to warn them that you won't give them another one tomorrow. If you think generosity is an obligation of slavery, you have your morals backwards.

However, almost every open source license actually DOES warn that support may end. See the warranty clause.

https://github.com/minio/minio/blob/master/LICENSE#L587


If you give them a free sandwich every day for 500 days.....yeah, you should probably tell them you're not coming tomorrow.

Okay, well they did.

The parallel is what's ridiculous..because of the social understanding. Even if you face a sandwich every day, the offer could end anytime..a one off surely doesn't set expectations.

With open source it does. If an indie open sources and get a baby or lose interest, it is understood as fair to suddenly stop maintenance.

When a company surfs on the open source wave to get contributions, grow penetration, then smoothly slows maintenance and announces to get a license, that's gaming the open source community.

See the numerous cases of popular open source repo where the parent or new parent company took over to gain the user base without any respect for the maintenance if not development aspect: community fork and take over the community.

Mariadb, a more recent illustrative example of that is the hashicorp drama that occured when investors decided it was time to gear towards profit at the detriment of the community that largely contributed to the tools.


> If offering a tie in thing supposedly free of charge without warning that would end once it serves a party less profit purpose then yes

Claiming that you’re entitled to free R&D forever because someone once gave you something of value seems like a great way to ensure that nobody does that again. You got over a decade of development by a skilled team, it’s not exactly beyond the pale that the business climate has changed since then.


Those might be your moral principles, but others reject this nonsense of an obligation to perpetual free labor you think you're entitled to, and don't grant you this moral high ground you assume you have.

There is no ethical obligation. You just want them to release new work under open source licence.

They already had. And for what purpose you think?

That's your first mistake. Thinking any company truly gives a shit about ethics when it negatively impacts what it is they actually want to do.

> When backed by a company there is an ethical obligation to keep, at least maintenance.

You're saying that a commercial company has an ethical obligation to do work for you in future, for free? That doesn't follow from any workable ethical system.


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