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What is the proof they did in the first place? Matthew McConaughey being mad at someone who doesn't believe in it in Interstellar?

An older fairytale goes this way... humans invented tools to transport them from a place to place faster than ever, and also communication systems that transmit messages faster than ever. Now, everything can be done in less time and they can enjoy the rest. Right?

Westerners are trying so hard to prove that there is nothing special about humans.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


Not sure about that, I'd more say the Western reductionism here is the assumption that all thinking / modeling is primarily linguistic and conscious. This article is NOT clearly falling into this trap.

A more "Eastern" perspective might recognize that much deep knowledge cannot be encoded linguistically ("The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao", etc.), and there is more broad recognition of the importance of unconscious processes and change (or at least more skepticism of the conscious mind). Freud was the first real major challenge to some of this stuff in the West, but nowadays it is more common than not for people to dismiss the idea that unconscious stuff might be far more important than the small amount of things we happen to notice in the conscious mind.

The (obviously false) assumptions about the importance of conscious linguistic modeling are what lead to people say (obviously false) things like "How do you know your thinking isn't actually just like LLM reasoning?".


All models have multimodality now, it's not just text, in that sense they are not "just linguistic".

Regarding conscious vs non-conscious processes:

Inference is actually non-conscious process because nothing is observed by the model.

Auto regression is conscious process because model observes its own output, ie it has self-referential access.

Ie models use both and early/mid layers perform highly abstracted non-conscious processes.


The multimodality of most current popular models is quite limited (mostly text is used to improve capacity in vision tasks, but the reverse is not true, except in some special cases). I made this point below at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46939091

Otherwise, I don't understand the way you are using "conscious" and "unconscious" here.

My main point about conscious reasoning is that when we introspect to try to understand our thinking, we tend to see e.g. linguistic, imagistic, tactile, and various sensory processes / representations. Some people focus only on the linguistic parts and downplay e.g. imagery ("wordcels vs. shape rotators meme"), but in either case, it is a common mistake to think the most important parts of thinking must always necessarily be (1) linguistic, (2) are clearly related to what appears during introspection.


All modern models are processing images internally within its own neural network, they don't delegate it to some other/ocr model. Image data flows through the same paths as text, what do you mean by "quite limited" here?

Your first comment was refering to unconscious, now you don't mention it.

Regarding "conscious and linguistic" which you seem to be touching on now, taking aside multimodality - text itself is way richer for llms than for humans. Trivial example may be ie. mermaid diagram which describes some complex topology, svg which describes some complex vector graphic or complex program or web application - all are textual but to understand and create them model must operate in non linguistic domains.

Even pure text-to-text models have ability to operate in other than linguistic domains, but they are not text-to-text only, they can ingest images directly as well.


I was obviously talking about conscious and unconscious processes in humans, you are attempting to transport these concepts to LLMs, which is not philosophically sound or coherent, generally.

Everything you said about how data flows in these multimodal models is not true in general (see https://huggingface.co/blog/vlms-2025), and unless you happen to work for OpenAI or other frontier AI companies, you don't know for sure how they are corralling data either.

Companies will of course engage in marketing and claim e.g. ChatGPT is a single "model", but, architecturally and in practice, this at least is known not to be accurate. The modalities and backbones in general remain quite separate, both architecturally and in terms of pre-training approaches. You are talking at a high level of abstraction that suggests education from blog posts by non-experts: actually read papers on how the architectures of these multimodal models are actually trained, developed, and connected, and you'll see the multi-modality is still very limited.

Also, and most importantly, the integration of modalities is primarily of the form:

    use (single) image annotations to improve image description, processing, and generation, i.e. "linking words to single images"
and not of the form

    use the implied spatial logic and relations from series of images and/or video to inform and improve linguistic outputs
I.e. most multimodal work is using linguistic models to represent or describe images linguistically, in the hope that the linguistic parts do the majority of the thinking and processing, but there is not much work using the image or video representations to do thinking, i.e. you "convert away" from most modalities into language, do work with token representations, and then maybe go back to images.

But there isn't much work on working with visuospatial world models or representations for the actual work (though there is some very cutting edge work here, e.g. Sam-3D https://ai.meta.com/blog/sam-3d/, and V-JEPA-2 https://ai.meta.com/research/vjepa/). But precisely because this stuff is cutting edge, even from frontier AI companies, it is likely most of the LLM stuff you see is largely driven by stuff learned from language, and not from images or other modalities. So LLMs are indeed still mostly constrained by their linguistic core.


>"Westerners are trying so hard to prove that there is nothing special about humans."

I am not really fond of us "westerners", but judjing how many "easterners" treat their populace they seem to confirm the point


Read a boring book.

Or the opposite, that humans are somehow super special and not as simple as a prediction feedback loop with randomizations.

How do you manage to get that from the article?

Not from the article. Comments don't have to work this way.

you realize ankit is from india and i'm from singapore right lol

another "noahpinion"

Stay away from metaphors. They are higher than your rational level.

Is this for programmers? Serious question.

The machine has to expand.


> Reading this from South America...

From a lot of other places too.



The people doing these literally hate liberals and liberal parts of the society.




Professor, writer, translator, a theologian... etc. Or maybe a sniper in the army.


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