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> That's a pretty reductivist way to define civilisation...

Agreed. I would consider banning slavery as more civilized, but it is an expansion of civil liberties.

Same with having general freedom of expression. Any thug can ban "lies" he doesn't like. Kings used to declare themselves gods and execute dissenters.



>I would consider banning slavery as more civilized, but it is an expansion of civil liberties.

It's an expansion of civil liberties for one group (the enslaved), at the cost of limiting the civil liberties of another group (the former slave owners): you're preventing the slave owners from exercising their freedom to enslave people and force them to work.

>Same with having general freedom of expression. Any thug can ban "lies" he doesn't like.

Same here. Even a law that bans yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater is infringing on the civil liberties of people to speak freely and cause chaos.

Personally, I'm perfectly happy with these infringements of civil liberty. It's better for society to avoid needless chaos from people shouting "fire!" and to prevent people from being enslaved. But they are limiting absolute freedom.




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