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Why are all cars and trucks sold with air conditioning?

Is it too much to roll down a window?

Why are those who don't use air conditioning paying the "environmental refrigerant tax"?

How much refrigerant would be saved if vehicle air conditioning was an additional expense?



Sitting in standstill traffic in >30°C climates is more than an inconvenience; it is an acute health risk. Please consider the fact that a significant proportion of humans live in tropical or desert climates which would be otherwise uninhabitable without air conditioning technology.


OTOH We've had some new trams with A/C that doesn't really measure up and you cannot open the windows. Same with trains.

Above 30°C it's actually more comfortable to just ventilate the train instead of A/C.


Yeah, the trams in my city generally are not designed to cool down more than 5°C from outside temperature.


Is it actual AC or swamp coolers/evaporative cooler? Usually as I mentioned elsewhere the licensing requirements (at least in the US) for actual AC systems usually involve a portion on computing heat load/etc in order to size a system.

Although, I'm betting the engineering side of the tram probably avoids needing anything other than the equivalent of the US PE/etc. Its probably a bit tricky because the needs of being able to load/unload people quickly also probably tend to dump a lot of hot air into the car. Either way though, busses, cars, trains all tend to do ok in hot climates because they have massively oversized AC systems and can move a lot of air relative to the enclosed space.

Returning to my original point, I'm betting your trams don't actually have AC, from your description I might guess they have some kind of evaporative cooler.


Are there really many places where AC enabled humans to move into a region of the globe where they never lived before?


What part of the world do you live in that tells you that you can make those types of decisions for people that live in other places in the world?

Come to Texas and drive your car with no AC and just the windows rolled down. Please, I'll let you stay at my house for the duration of the experiment just to watch you bitch about the heat. I'll even record it for your socials so you can just show everyone how amazing your idea was.


One thing to realize is that "wind chill" also has a reverse effect that occurs when it's hot outside.

As a human, with a normal body temperature of 98.6 degrees F. If the outside air temperature is 100 degrees F, then having your windows rolled down will actually increase the speed at which your body heats up to match ambient temperatures.

This makes driving motorcycles in desert areas where air temp is > 100 degrees especially dangerous as it can quickly lead to dehydration and heat stroke.


Much of that is dependent on the wet bulb temp, which is where some people are crying about high humidity at lower temps. But in most deserts the humidity also tends to be quite low, so the wet bulb temp can be fairly low at air temps quite a bit higher than 100F because sweat evaporates quickly.

But yah, motorcycles at speed are another thing entirely because sweat/etc can just as easily blow off as evaporate. And so, you can't drink/sweat enough to be cooled. Combined with the need to wear protective gear which also tends to stop evaporation is a deadly combination. I ride mountain bikes in 100F+ weather and its another set of dangers, and one of the best feelings is dumping cold water through the vents in a helmet and feeling the burning hot water flush down your face and be replaced by the cool. But again, i'm basically carrying a significant quantity of <40F water intended to be sprayed on my already sweaty self, along with a 32F water i'm drinking not for hydration but as coolant.


I have lived years w/o air conditioning in tropical West Africa and desert areas of North Africa. I have also spent plenty of time sitting in standstill traffic during my years in Florida and Louisiana. I have never used air conditioning. If you have a valid medical need for a/c, you could be accommodated. However, if you just want to shutoff the outside world by rolling up the windows, then perhaps you should be the one paying for that luxury.


This has been studied - driving on the freeway with the window open adds more air resistance than the energy used to run an A/C.

An A/C is better for the environment.


Rolling down windows doesn’t work. I require A/C, it’s not something I’ll give up.


I don't remember the exact threshold (It is definitely the case, over 98 degrees Fahrenheit -Body temperature, but that seems high), where moving air no longer cools you. I think that humidity can bring that threshold waaaayyyy down.

I used to live in Maryland. The summers there are brutal. On hot days, rolling down the window is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face.

I was talking with a friend of mine in Delhi, a couple of weeks back, when they were having the heat wave.

It's no joke. People are dropping dead at their workstations.


The threshold is in fact higher than body temperature for dry air. The point below which air can't cool anything is the wet bulb temperature, and a wet bulb above body temperature is eventually fatal.


When I lived in Morocco, they had this Bedouin tribe, called the "Behr-Behr."

They were known as "The Blue Nomads." because their skin was often tinged blue, from the dye on the heavy wool robes they wore.

In the desert, wool actually keeps you cooler.


In Arabic Bahdawi means "desert dweller", while in English Bedouin refers more specifically to Arab desert dwellers.

The people you're talking about are Amazigh, also known as Berbers, and from the indigo, specifically Tuareg.

I'm sure they were referred to as "bedouin" and it isn't wrong in context.


Thanks!


This comment is being downvoted, and with reason.

But in a decade or so, it will be the prevailing opinion. Some czar of the environment will go around deciding who gets AC, and telling others "You don't need AC". (Generally, this is decided by campaign donations and party support.)

Of course there is some negligible environmental impact that will come out in a college paper some point. But otherwise, the only thing people will notice is the rise in deaths of the elderly.

But this is a small price to pay. The environment is our god, and it demands sacrifice.




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