In my experience swarm is even more difficult to get running if you need something uncommon.

personally i would skip straight to kubernetes if you start messing with swarm

> personally i would skip straight to kubernetes if you start messing with swarm

I don't know. Docker swarm mode is basically Docker spread over multiple nodes. Consequently it's a very spartan Kubernetes-light, but extremely easy to operate and maintain.

I love microk8s but I still find Docker swarm mode to be the ideal first step for on prem.

the problem with using swarm IMO is forming dependencies around it. i've found that it is easy enough to get started with, but scaling it to any degree is asking for trouble. it also doesn't help that swarm seems all but abandoned now that Docker spends a lot of time bolstering the built-in Kubernetes experience.