And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth.
If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be.
There are now enough great restaurants (as well as endless numbers of cook books) which can help you find very satisfying, or even excitingly new and wonderful meals that involve basic natural plants (and legumes etc.)
The problem for many people is they only know the "meat and potatoes" perspective. But they want to reduce their meat consumption, so they buy the meat replacement thing; and that replacement is not particularly healthy, nor is it usually a believable substitute. (It's hard to recreate the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins.)
These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. There seems to be this army of people who say "compressed vegetables in a circle" are acceptable burger alternatives; they're really not.
This market isn't for existing vegans/vegetarians in most cases, it's for people curious about going that way or cutting down their consumption.
> These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true.
No, what OP said is exactly correct, but the vast majority of people never get exposure to what good vegetarian food is or how to cook it, so they wouldn’t know.
I’ve alternated between vegetarian and omnivore for years, for various reasons (current omnivore but limiting some meats due to cholesterol). I’ve gone through the veggie phase where I think vegetarianism is about black bean burgers and various packaged soy things.
It’s unfulfilling from a food perspective, much in the same way that having a diet of fast food and packaged crap is an unfulfilling omnivore diet. If you eat it every day your body starts to enjoy it and crave it, but it’s not good.
True food enlightenment is not restricted to veggie/meat, it’s expanding your horizons and discovering new tastes and textures and appreciating the cultures and techniques that produced them. This cuts a lot deeper than at face value whether a mushroom can imitate a steak, because that should never have been the goal.
True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test.
I wouldn't take health advice on faith from someone who has a medical degree but never practices medicine.
It's about relative interest. My point wasn't that vegetarians can't know, but that their advice isn't as valuable to me as a recommendation from a current meat eater. The meat eater has less agenda and more recent experience to base their recommendation on.
> If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
> I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test.
That's a faulty analogy. The equivalent would be getting advice on alternatives to driving from someone who no longer drives.
I don't think I'd request advice on the best form of public transport from someone who drives everywhere and has taken the train once or twice.
> The meat eater has less agenda
Ha! Really? Everyone has an agenda. Meat eaters / car drivers / vegetarians / non-drivers have all emotionally committed to their decision. It's naive to think otherwise. Everyone likes to assume their choice is the sensible one and the "other side" has an irrational militaristic agenda.
Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. Some did recently eat meat so can compare.
In my opinion, I don't think anything vegetarian will come close to a steak anytime soon, but I have eaten chili sin carne, without noticing it being vegetarian.
My main problem is also simply, that I have not learned yet, to cook without meat very good. It takes effort, but is worth it.
Fable mushrooms are the closest thing to steak-like that I've ever had. It's even better than the fake meat steaks I've found in supermarkets. I was never a lover of mushrooms in the first place, but these don't even taste or feel like a traditional mushroom. It looks and feels more like steak.
Indeed. Impossible meat etc are also different, and that's OK too.
I'm confounded by folks hammering on about how close they are to 'meat'. Hey, chicken, pork, beef are all different too! So what's the problem? Are they good? Do you know a good recipe? That's all that counts.
Most of the vegetarians I thought we are talking about, meaning people from "the west", were only some grew up with it, but rather switched to vegetarism for ethical/health reasons.
I don’t need to replace meat with something fake. Western meatless diets try to replace meat with either way too processed of a food or a nasty mash of fake meat.
I’ve found I like vegetarian Indian way better than anything else. The dishes do not try to recreate some fake meat concoction.
You missed my point completely. Mushrooms can provide a nice chewy texture to balance other textures in a vegetarian dish. The effect is similar to what meat provides. It's not a processed meat replacement that attempts to mimic meat.
Quinoa can provide small chewy things and also absorb spices as it is cooked. Then, like ground beef, it can be mixed with other foods.
Just because something is a reasonable substitute doesn't mean it must be a processed "replacement" (as they use the word).
No, they exist because someone can see an opportunity to make the same or more money than they make on beef with something that is extremely cheap for them to manufacture.
As a consumer, I want a good vegan protein source that isn't carb-heavy and is easy to cook with, whether or not it's a fake meat. Something with the same macros as skinless chicken breast (75% balanced protein by calorie, 25% fat) would be perfect.
Tempeh is okay but fattier and closer to a steak. TVP is higher protein but has carbs instead of fats. Pea protein powder is perfect but I have no idea how to use large quantities of it in a solid meal.
Sweet Earth seitan has almost identical macros to chicken breast. And easy to saute or microwave and put in sandwichs, wraps and bowls. Nature's promise makes a similar competitor.
As an fyi here in AU there are a handful of chicken facsimiles based on pea protein. Theyre “ok” to cook with, but tend to be a bit dry and lacking in binding agents in my experience. Not quite as good as the wheat gluten and soy products yet.
We don't need any kind of specific food. Some people just like it, even if we know the alternatives. For example I enjoy both meet and vegan food, but will take Grill'd Impossible burger over a beef one. The good plant based burgers reached the level of being good on their own for me, not as a replacement.
Someone always makes a comment like this about meat substitutes.
Wether you pick the vegetarian or meat-based option, there’s a lot of reasons why someone would choose a processed slice, sausage or whatever over cooking from scratch.
> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be.
This is the key to becoming a vegetarian/plant-based food eater. I cook an amazing lasagna-like (sandwich-cake like) vegan meal with Plantain slices as the sheets and a yummy inside with soy, bell pepper and herbs. It's delicious.
But people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables... it just doesn't work. I love a good steak, a nice bbq hamburger (usually I eat them on weekends) but also love the vegan food I eat through the week.
Hopefully, soon we'll be able to get the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins without slaughtering cows or plant-based imitations — cultured meat is already a thing, it's a matter of time before it becomes affordable:
https://mosameat.com/growing-beef
It would be cheaper if meat wasn't ridiculously subsidised, which needs to change. In restaurants it costs about the same.
Regarding health it of course depends on product and what metric of healthiness we are looking at. With burger patties I consider them to be at least the same. With sausages I would consider the plant version healthier.
Taste is subjective and also a matter of trying out things and getting used to them. I love meat, but I also like the taste of many plant based alternatives as well and sometimes I even crave them over meat.
Ethical/ecological angle is clear.
(I live in EU and consume more actual meat than plant based alternatives.)
If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be.
There are now enough great restaurants (as well as endless numbers of cook books) which can help you find very satisfying, or even excitingly new and wonderful meals that involve basic natural plants (and legumes etc.)
The problem for many people is they only know the "meat and potatoes" perspective. But they want to reduce their meat consumption, so they buy the meat replacement thing; and that replacement is not particularly healthy, nor is it usually a believable substitute. (It's hard to recreate the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins.)