Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I've got some years in China. I speak Chinese, I'm eating a jianbing[1] as I write this. Didn't leave during the three years of zero covid. Reopening has changed everything about daily life in the best way.

But I'm also looking for a way out. For the reasons outlined in the article, yes, and others. General sentiment toward foreigners has rebounded a bit since the early days of the pandemic, but it's pretty clear that the government would like all the Americans, Canadians and Brits to kindly GTFO. And everyone else seems to be leaving: I lost about half my friends in the last two years.

My (privileged) problem is that I can't stomach the idea of moving back to the US. I moved here because I wanted to do something different with my life; the idea of living in the US again makes me feel like life would be over. Friends are moving to Singapore, Bangkok, Bali, Berlin, so I'll likely end up following them. Five years ago HK or Taipei might've been good options, but not these days.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jianbing_guozi



When I left China I spent a year or two traveling and then returned to work in Taiwan. If you already speak Chinese, it's a very soft landing. Imo the food isn't nearly as good as in China, and (depending where you were before) the weather in Taipei is much worse, but the general pace of life is way more relaxed. You don't need to go through security to get on the subway or show your ID to buy a train ticket. You hardly ever see cops pushing people around. The bureaucracy is just regular plain old bureaucracy instead of the latest creepy layer of techno-fascist privacy invasion. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and then I realize it won't, because that sense of constantly fearing the next policy shift, or wondering when something you like is about to be arbitrarily taken away, that anxiety and pessimism really is something unique to authoritarian countries.

To be sure, Taiwan is going to face increasing pressure from China in the coming years, and there is some chance that it might escalate into a hot war. But the sense of existential dread is much less for me than it was in China. Despite their best efforts, the party is much more capable of ruining the lives of people inside China than outside of it. Aside from Berlin, I've never lived in the other cities on your list, so I can't really compare, but if you enjoy the lifestyle of a tier two city in China and would like somewhere similar with a much less oppressive government, Taipei is a pretty good option.


I think it’s not just foreigers with unfavorable origins, in their speaking of ideology/regime/path confidence, anyone not subscribing and contributing to the greater good, foreigners or not, are not welcomed and supposed to stay and share the pie.


Berlin as an option stands out both geographically and in cost of living. What makes it attractive despite that?


Culturally it has a lot of offer, vibrant scenes for any art or music taste and museums stuffed artifacts stolen from all around the globe[0] that might almost rival the British Museum. Also many musicians and artists have called it their temporary home, from Josephine Baker to David Bowie and his flat mate Iggy Pop[1]. Call it a litmus-test for how open a society is, even if you prefer complaining about the noise and waste the Love Parade (or rather Rave the Planet since last year) produces. On the wider geography, Germany itself is quite diverse, with a 90 minute train ride to Hamburg you will notice a difference in culture and into the south your just-acquired German skill will face challenges from many dialects. The city is also a great starting point to across the borders into the nine neighbouring countries we Germans have fought against and alongside at various points of history. Oh, and we Germans thing we have humour...

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/travel/museums-stolen-art... [1] https://www.iheartberlin.de/2016/01/26/famous-exiles-of-berl...


Just spent a weekend there: I heard more English spoken in public than German, and even found myself having to backtrack and switch to English (my first language) after instinctively starting conversations in German (my second language). It didn't quite feel like I was still in Germany; only the street signs and some business names brought me back.

A few of the people I met at the tech events I visited have lived in Germany long enough to get citizenship, but haven't applied because they aren't sure they could pass the language exams, and would have to take a lot of effort to get enough practice speaking - they work in English all day, and speak English to all of their friends.

Berlin is a different world from even the larger cities in southern Germany, like Munich or Nuremberg - reachable by high speed train in 3-5 hours.

For Americans, think NYC (Berlin) vs. Dallas (Munich).


It is SO hard to not switch to English when you start talking with someone who doesn't speak fluent German. It's some stupid automatism we Germans have and it took me years to break this habit. Maybe you can do the same and stick to your bad German even if the Germans switch to English? Conversations in two languages sound funny :-) We have plenty of literature and media in German, and few languages get treated with the same effort by Hollywood distributors like German does.

If you already are a EU citizen, you simply won't bother with German citizenship. It will become an interesting problem for democracy to solve with Luxemburg have some 47% foreigners, not sure how many are EU-citizens [1].

Dallas = Munich, sad but true.

[1] https://luxembourg.public.lu/de/gesellschaft-und-kultur/bevo...


I think I would love Berlin. It is just very different than all the other options presented, so I was curious why it was listed. It is like someone saying they are trying to decide between several types of dark roasted coffee but also having ginger kombucha in the list. Put more succinctly, I did see a common trait between Berlin and the other locations, so I wondered what it was.


TomK32's provided some great insight as a German. For me, the common traits are 1) local language is not explicitly English, 2) has a vibrant social scene, and 3) I know people there already. I'm a techie so cost of living isn't an overriding concern.


That about tracks.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: