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There's no good evidence for "you need to get sick in order to have a healthy immune system", and it leads to dangerous nonsense like measles parties.


There’s a lot of evidence that exposure is required for immunity. That’s how immunity works, no?


This is what they were talking about, exposure __does not require__ you get sick. You can still be exposed, but you don't need to let the concentrations of pathogens to build up in stale air over the course of a school day.

The results aren't in yet, and of course will be subject to reproduction/duplicatation, but I suspect that's what we're seeing here. People (children) are still getting sick, just less so, presumably because they're getting exposed to lower concentrations of pathogens. The article doesn't make it clear (or I missed it) if the reduction is in severity (time spent recovering from being sick), frequency (number of times one gets sick), or a combination thereof. If I'm right, I'd expect it to be a reduction stemming from both reduced frequency/severity.


Most low-level infections probably go unnoticed, and won't show up in the study at all.

Some days the kids are just a bit off, and taking their temperature shows slightly elevated temperature (37.2°C in ear). I'm pretty sure they are fighting some mild infection, but they aren't really ill.


The other poster made a statement about the strength of the immune system. I don't think there's much evidence that exposure to virus A ends up contributing to a robust response to virus Z. There's some benefit if the infections are somewhat related, but not if they are dissimilar. So sure, exposure to a particular infection is likely to make your immune system more responsive to that infection, but it's probably not reasonable to say that it has gotten stronger.

And then, measles in particular can actually damage existing immunity to other infections, making exposure to it quite a lot more dangerous than just the immediate infection. https://asm.org/articles/2019/may/measles-and-immune-amnesia


There is a lot of evidence that exposure to Covid induces long term permanent damage to tissue and the ability of the immune system to fight off other infections.


> There’s a lot of evidence that exposure is required for immunity

Think about - immune system evolved over millions of years, is it plausible that it needed wild tribes of hunter gatherers to huddle in a nearly airtight box for 8 hours and infect each other to work


I'm fine with arguing about degrees of exposure, but I'm arguing against the black and white statement that exposure doesn't affect immunity.


Maybe there is still exposure, but at a lower viral load?


In the extreme there is evidence that no exposure to pathogens might weaken immunity, but that is not going to be a problem unless someone is living in a bubble or on a space station.


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In your hypothetical of it only costing a few dollars a year the economic savings just by not having children be sick even once would easily outweigh any downsides. Also, we already have this for many diseases. They’re proven and they work just fine. Nobody reasonable is advocating you avoid the flu shot just because “everyone now has the same immunities”.


Silly question: how does an immune system get “trained”? I imagine some of it is through familial transmission but getting sick seems to kick it into high gear.


Ideally, their own mother's milk.


Vaccines. Vaccines teach your immune system to fight specific viruses.


This ignores the fact that the vast majority of airborne common-cold viruses are not covered by a vaccine


So this is an extremely simplified answer but essentially some pathogen gets into the body. If they find a cell first, they generally get to do their job and try to kill the cell and replicate. But if a macrophage (a type of white blood cell) finds them first betfore they've intruded upon a cell, the macrophage eats it and disassembles it into little tiny pieces.

The macrophage then hands over some of the important pieces to undifferentiated T cells. Those T cells then "differentiate" into one of two forms.

The first are "Helper T cells" which carry the "design" for antibodies (immunoglobulins, i.e. proteins that bind to pathogens directly. These then share those antibody designs with B-Cells.

The other type are "Killer T cells" which carry the "design" for T-cell-receptors that can detect "sick" cells for this specific pathogen or defect. They go hunt after the specific cell and essentially cause them to explode with the power of hydrogen peroxide. Then the macrophages eat up the dead infected cell and all the pathogens inside it and start the process anew.

Now those B-Cells get the "design" for antibodies from the helper T cells and differentiate into two types.

The first is essentially a factory that mass produces the antibodies and dumps them into the body. Those antibody proteins then bind to the pathogens and the macrophages can then directly attack the pathogens (because they have a bunch of big flags/alarms on them).

The other type of B-Cell that they can differentiate into are memory B-cells. These keep the designs stored inside them and keep detectors for the pathogen on their cell membrane. Then they "go to sleep" until their detectors are activated by the pathogen. They live out their lives and replicate as needed to continue their lineage. When a pathogen shows up, they bind to either the pathogen directly or to some of the proteins it produces and they turn their factories on at full speed and start mass producing antibodies to start the immune response as fast as possible locally before the pathogen can do damage. They get depleted in this effort of course but if things go okay, the following immune response should trigger the creation of more memory B cells. (and when they don't you get stuff like immune amnesia).

There are also "memory T-cells" but how they come about and how exactly they work is fuzzy and not super well understood. It's similar to memory B-cells but it's way more complicated and a bit "magic".

But yeah eventually then your body beats the infection and things go back to normal with the memory cells hanging out in the body.

Now the important thing with intensity of infection is that a mild infection will generally guarantee your body learns a sane, moderate response but a major infection can send your body into a panic and put the immune system into overdrive. That can train a response that attacks the pathogen but also attacks a lot of other stuff in the process (auto-immune response).

You can think of this kind of like an analog version of machine learning on proteins (the training input). A bad fit can end up mischaracterizing healthy cells and bodily structures as "pathogens" and cause long term issues or even just severe reactions when you get a reinfection.

Now for getting "trained" from the parent, this happens during pregnancy by diffusion of a subset of the antibodies from the mother to the fetus (not all types can but many do). Those stick around for a good while and eventually the child gets minor exposure to various pathogens and those shared antibodies kickstart the child's immune response enough to build up its own memory.

Hope this helps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Primary_...


I think measles parties are hold over from before the advent of the measles vaccine (early 1970s). Now that we have a vaccine for it, the vaccine is vastly superior for many reasons.

https://www.phind.com/search?cache=va2btahy5d5gjx0ejd888ue5

https://historyofvaccines.org/history/measles/timeline


Still a problem: https://inews.co.uk/news/measles-parties-risk-children-life-...

Vaccine misinformation has been a disaster.




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