Every time I’ve tried Linux it’s always been a little clunky. I think it’s come a long way, but recently I loaded Ubuntu on to my old 2013 MacBook Pro and it works pretty well.
What’s driving me crazy is I have all these shortcuts for Mac and I’m trying to figure out the equivalent in Linux. One stupid thing is paste doesn’t work in the terminal… seriously? Why can’t I ctrl-v after ctrl-c from web browser?
The little cursor/word navigation shortcuts are driving me crazy as well like jump word to the right or left, highlight entire line, jump to end of line, etc.
I should probably try the Framework laptop or some other hardware Linux ready though.
I've tried MacOS on recent Macs and, boy, it sucks. Inconsistent shortcuts, buggy keyboard switchers (randomly it shows an unlock screen without my quertz layout and I mess up my password), and window management issues all around.
Audio devices randomly hit buffer overflows or something in Google Meet, it randomly mutes and unmutes devices, etc.
Linux ain't perfect either (and really, it was much better ~10 years ago), but it's still so much better than either Windows or MacOS.
Or maybe, just maybe, I am used to it having used it since 90s, and they all have their kludges?
Can it be more inconsistent than copy-paste working differently in the terminal and all other apps, though? Of course it's trivial to change and Linux is more or less fully configurable (e.g. NumLock being broken on KDE for a few years)
Right, so if a new Linux user who uses Ctrl+C/V in all GUI apps finds that he needs to paste something into terminal that should be perfectly obvious for them?
Or should that person feel confused and annoyed since they can't they don't know how to basic operation just so that "power users" could feel better about themselves (I can't think of any other reason which would someone think purposefully inconsistent UX is a good thing...)
Also "Insert" is not a thing on most laptop keyboards. So it would be Ctrl + Fn + Delete(or something like that) which is also perfectly obvious.
"Most" laptops actually do have an Insert key. Perhaps you've been using the wrong laptops? :)
Anyway, my comment was in jest. None of them are perfect, and to a non-Mac user, its imperfections make it "clunky", whereas they are used to imperfections of their go-to systems.
Bugginess one sees when switching to a Mac for the first time is really the same feeling for me like Linux feels to you.
I don't agree. This isn't about different behaviours in Linux vs Mac/Windows but rather about Linux apps having different shortcuts for common basic operations in different apps. That's just poor UX.
I think Ctrl-C behaving consistently in a Linux terminal, be it an actual terminal or a GUI-based one, is good behaviour. Ctrl-C for "copy" actually came a long time after Ctrl-C already had a meaning in a text terminal.
For that matter, how does Ctrl-C behave in Windows Command Prompt (if that's still how they call it)? In what way is it inconsistent: with the GUI or with the originating DOS terminal behaviour?
Mac went with Command and Control as separate keys on a keyboard, which avoids this particular issue, but it gets confusing quickly: what's a "command" and what's a "control"? Which key is to switch workspaces, and why is that "Control" and not "Command"? With every single shortcut, I wonder which was the one I need to use, and it's so hard to remember.
I've been using macOS for years (all my employers tend to give me a MBP) and the one thing I never get used to is the lack of magnetic borders for windows.
You can never arrange them perfectly, they're always a bit disorganized.
Or how some windows don't receive a resize signal when you disconnect from a USB-C display and they get resized without being redrawn (Firefox and Chromium for instance), and you have to resize them which is never trivial if they were full screen or taking a half screen (not all borders are draggable or something of the sort).
Keeping that as a default is silly though. Intentionally having poor UX that's unnecessarily confusing to new users because of "reasons" is why Linux can never become a credible consumer OS.
The poor UX comes from the browser using Windows shortcuts instead of something that's consistent with the rest of the environment.
Compare this to macOS, where copy and paste are consistently Cmd+C and Cmd+V. More generally, keyboard shortcuts tend to use Cmd. That leaves key combinations with Ctrl to their traditional uses in the terminal. Which is pretty convenient, as the combinations won't randomly change when you ssh to a remote Linux system.
Keeping ctrl-C as the binding for copy is silly though. Intentionally having poor UX that's unnecessarily confusing to power users because of "reasons" is why Windows can never become a credible developer OS.
You mean "Super/Meta + C" is the default for copy on Linux making the whole argument redundant? I don't think that's a default shortcut on Gnome or KDE....
Of course if the developers of Linux/KDE/Gnome/etc. want to make their software unnecessarily confusing to new/less experienced users which would make inconsistent UX an intentional feature then you're right.
> (Ctrl-C is especially common, being "interrupt" or "quit".)
That is same for terminal in macOS. Mac uses cmd-C/V for copy/paste in gui, so it is not in conflict with ctrl in terminal. Which I find nice, but ctrl+shift is sufficient as well.
> Why can’t I ctrl-v after ctrl-c from web browser?
Same reasons numlock being off is still the default and a bunch of other silly defaults (that are of course trivial to change but are still annoying): masochism combined with the need to prove something.
> One stupid thing is paste doesn’t work in the terminal… seriously? Why can’t I ctrl-v after ctrl-c from web browser?
It's because copying from a terminal is ctrl+shift+C because ctrl+C sends an interrupt to the program running in the terminal. So paste is ctrl+shift+V to be consistent with that.
> One stupid thing is paste doesn’t work in the terminal… seriously? Why can’t I ctrl-v after ctrl-c from web browser?
Going from Mac to Linux, I felt that the shortcuts in Mac were worse.
On Linux, you don't have to reach for a totally different key to copy/paste from the terminal. You just add Shift to the Ctrl +V and Ctrl+ C. On Mac, it's a totally different button to exit CLI programs and do other things.
All other shortcuts are also a bit better on Linux. Ctrl + J for downloads in Chromium. Ctrl+ H for history. Ctrl + Tab to move through tabs. Ctrl + T for new tab. On Mac, they're very inconsistent.
> Going from Mac to Linux, I felt that the shortcuts in Mac were worse.
They're so much better on Mac, that it's not even a comparison. Mac shortcuts feel like they're designed by someone who actually types on a keyboard. Using COMMAND, that is naturally mapped by a thumb, is so much better than reaching for CTRL. And don't even get me started on idiotic Windows machines having CTRL as left most button that obliterates your pinky and instantly requires remapping some other key, like CAPSLOCK.
> All other shortcuts are also a bit better on Linux. Ctrl + J for downloads in Chromium. Ctrl+ H for history. Ctrl + Tab to move through tabs. Ctrl + T for new tab. On Mac, they're very inconsistent.
Mac shortcuts are literally consistent across all applications, unlike Linux.
I just gave you real examples of how they're so inconsistent and difficult on Mac.
Linux uses Ctrl for most things, you don't even need to lift the finger up away from Ctrl for most shortcuts. Super key is only used for OS shortcuts. Linux is way more consistent in its application.
On Mac, the distinction between Ctrl, Option and Cmd is arbitrary.
Command is the key on Mac, option adds hidden capabilities and Control was added for whoever wanted to use it. For OS shortcuts I don’t even know if I ever use Control, only Vim.
And it is used for OS shortcuts, which also includes most used functions like switching windows and copy pasting, unlike Windows and Linux.
And just because they’re more “consistent” in your head, even though they’re not, it doesn’t make them any less awful. Using Command key for every OS shortcut is far superior than using mix of Control and Option.
Just one most obvious example: copy and paste between windows. CMD C, CMD TAB, CMD V. Who’s more consistent now?
I'm not sure why you're agitated. You and I and simply stating opinions and preferences.
> I can use the same set of shortcuts across all applications on Mac, such as copy paste as was pointed out earlier, or exit, or preferences, etc.
Literally the same with Linux. There's no difference.
> And just because they’re more “consistent” in your head, even though they’re not, it doesn’t make them any less awful. Using Command key for every OS shortcut is far superior than using mix of Control and Option.
Okay, let's see:
- New Tab: Cmd + T vs Ctrl + T
- Switch Tabs: Ctrl + Tab (Can't use Cmd + Tab) vs Ctrl + Tab
- History in browser: Cmd + Y vs Ctrl + H (H is for History)
- Downloads Page: Cmd + Shift + J vs Ctrl + J
- Swift through words: Opt + Left/Right vs Ctrl + Left/Right
You see how consistent Linux is with Ctrl? You don't need to use other keys most of the time. Everything's fixed. Terminal is literally the only app where the difference comes up because Ctrl + C is used for SIGINT, thats literally it!
Inconsistency is not an issue for those who have learned the shortcuts. Everybody has trouble adapting to new keyboard shortcuts so that's not the main issue. Mac objectively uses way more keys in shortcuts compared to Linux which is what makes it worse.
> Just one most obvious example: copy and paste between windows.
Always the same, Ctrl + C/V. Except for the terminal because Ctrl + C is used for SIGINT, even on Mac. So instead of having to invent a whole new key for copy/paste in terminal, Linux uses an extra Shift, which imo is much better changing the whole key.
Let's not talk about Cmd + Tab, Alt + Tab on Linux is much better than Cmd + Tab + Cmd + `. I use the Alt Tab app on Mac too, it's way better than the default, unless of course one likes to use more keys to switch between windows for no reason.
I use both Mac and Linux for work. It's not me who has issues. I'm able to work on both just fine. I just mentioned why I think Linux is better, because the keys are consistent within the Linux + Windows world and they're much easier to learn. Of course you're gonna have to adjust to the difference when switching to Linux, is that even something to be angry about?
What’s driving me crazy is I have all these shortcuts for Mac and I’m trying to figure out the equivalent in Linux. One stupid thing is paste doesn’t work in the terminal… seriously? Why can’t I ctrl-v after ctrl-c from web browser?
The little cursor/word navigation shortcuts are driving me crazy as well like jump word to the right or left, highlight entire line, jump to end of line, etc.
I should probably try the Framework laptop or some other hardware Linux ready though.