Honest question, whats the value to this topic in discussing generalizations of gender expectations and gender roles?
For one woman in my family tree, her father explicitly give his daughter workshop skills because he viewed it as important skills to have, something she was very happy to receive and has continued to use through her 60 and ongoing life.
A other woman in this tree decided early in life that her primary goal in life was to find a husband and raise children. She did it, and later when the children became more independent, the husband requested that she went and got a job, which resulted in her getting a depression since she absolutely did not want to do that.
Two other anecdotes, in what would be equivalent to US middle/high school, my school let the students choose between woodwork and needlework. The result was ~30 girls + exactly 1 guy in needlework, and ~30 guys + exactly 1 girl in woodwork. Similar events happened at my next school when choosing between psychology and film study, with every student being of the same gender except for one (me personally being that odd one in that case).
I do not see this changing with time, but rather seems to get worse. As the gender equality paradox illustrate, the tendency for stereotypical gender roles and cultural pressure to enforce gender roles tend to get stronger with more gender equality. More recent studies also points towards higher class status as being in a positive correlation in upholding stereotypical gender roles.
It's true that the subthread was a generic tangent and in that sense off-topic, but that arguably started with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42997899, not the reply. It's also true that the subthread got a bit testier and flamier as it went along, which was disappointing. I've detached it from the original root now (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017762).
If someone wants to talk about boys, it's fair for others to talk about girls. The reply (to me at least) seemed motivated by personal feeling and personal experience rather than ideological battle, so I thought the flags were unfair. People should be free to exchange their personal feelings and experiences here, as long as they don't attack others.
Free to exchange their personal feelings and experiences is good. I fully agree with that.
What is fair or not fair thankfully not up to me. I am fairly colored by my personal experience, especially with one family member that seemingly blended their view of gender roles with their self identity, and an other who seemingly feels the whole deal to be very restrictive and was greatly helped by a parent who choose to go outside the normal expectations in that regard. To me that makes the ideological battle feel like both sides are quite wrong. People generally also describe it as old people that enforces gender roles while young people are trying to escape it, which is also completely opposite in my personal experience.
If I could wish for something in this kind of discussion, it would be the minimization of generalizations. Comments like all girls get treated like X, or all boys get treated like Y, only seem to be simplifications that aim to put a lid on anyone with a different personal experience.
For one woman in my family tree, her father explicitly give his daughter workshop skills because he viewed it as important skills to have, something she was very happy to receive and has continued to use through her 60 and ongoing life.
A other woman in this tree decided early in life that her primary goal in life was to find a husband and raise children. She did it, and later when the children became more independent, the husband requested that she went and got a job, which resulted in her getting a depression since she absolutely did not want to do that.
Two other anecdotes, in what would be equivalent to US middle/high school, my school let the students choose between woodwork and needlework. The result was ~30 girls + exactly 1 guy in needlework, and ~30 guys + exactly 1 girl in woodwork. Similar events happened at my next school when choosing between psychology and film study, with every student being of the same gender except for one (me personally being that odd one in that case).
I do not see this changing with time, but rather seems to get worse. As the gender equality paradox illustrate, the tendency for stereotypical gender roles and cultural pressure to enforce gender roles tend to get stronger with more gender equality. More recent studies also points towards higher class status as being in a positive correlation in upholding stereotypical gender roles.