Hundreds of billions in support, massively increased defense spending, and hefty sanctions are obviously nothing..

Also much more people have been to Italy,or at least know the country and it's culture compared to Ukraine. So the Fallout in Public Opinion would be way worse. China would also be salivating at an Opportunity to isolate the US, and that would be one presented on a silver platter

If America decided to wipe Italy off the map, you would be happy for the UK to send some money? That would be enough?

I don't think you can impose enough diplomatic sanctions on America to make us care, and certainly not enough to make up for deleting Italy.

If you would be sanctioned into oblivion like North Korea, you would probably care at some point.

Attacking one of the world largest Western economies, would turn the other ones against you

Yeah, I would care, but like I said, don't think the Western countries can accomplish that.

I'm just talking about reality. America can do pretty close to whatever it wants.

China doesn't like them, Russia doesn't like them, the EU would immediately pass sanctions as it is its own territory, who else is really left? Canada and Mexico?

Well the Canadians certainly didn't forgot all those threats about becoming the 51st State.

> Countries would be scrambling to team with the USA IMO. You see the same happen for obvious "bad actors" now.

I honestly don't see that happening. Yes, there are Hungary and Poland, but if Italy - currently a US ally - got wiped off the map for some lame reason, why would or should anyone trust their alliance with the US?

Non-EU European countries also have mixed feelings about the US (and the West in general). See Serbia for example.

> Also, I think America can make it on its own, no help. And still be a powerhouse. You don't have to agree.

Yes, I'll disagree. We once had the whole making-it-on-our-own story in many countries in Eastern Europe. There were numerous shortages of even the most basic household items like fabric softeners and coffee. Many of those countries even had some trade between each other (Comecon) but it wasn't enough and that was 50+ years ago when we weren't dependent on China for electronics and every other piece of plastic out there.

The world is now more globalized and codependent than ever. You don't have to agree with me either.

They would scramble if the US would be trustworthy Allies. The Problem is, that under Trump they act irrational, and unpredictable.

Also no Nation can't make it on their own in 2026 without massive losses in Quality of Life

Public opinion is dead, what matters is policy makers opinion on controlling financial interests in the West, and what the CCP politbureau thinks. One is a mongrel divisive semi-hereditary plutocracy, the other is a reimagined empire that clearly has a long game going. I don't think anyone cares for the public at large, at least to the extent the public doesn't get any wild ideas like having an opinion and expressing it with a pitchfork.

Wiping off Italy for no reason is enough to trigger a French nuclear response.

Hypothetical was: So if Americans don't like Trump then, say, Italy can unilaterally bomb San Francisco?

Response was: Yes, Italy could choose to do so. However, American would probably delete Italy if Italy made that choice.

So France would not be looking at the US deleting Italy for no reason.

Yes, you're right. It just that the comparison with Ukraine (invaded for no rational reason) + 'wiping out' made me think sejje was making a stronger (?) hypothetical.

I think we're have strayed too far from the point of ´might makes right' is bad, actually. GP very clearly chose Italy as an example because it's less polemic than the obvious option with a enormous manufacturing base and nukes.

That would result in the obliteration of France?

You really think the French are going to sacrifice themselves to avenge the Italians?

>That would result in the obliteration of France?

To be clear, if we are talking about a salt-the-earth level conventional bombing for pure annexation / genocide of a EU nation the French would:

1. Remind the US via diplomatic means that they have nuclear subs and the will to use them.

2. If ignored, select some non-mainland territory (PR or Hawaii) and make a ultimatum. Mention that if the US does not desist they will wipe it, but will not launch attacks on the continental US.

3. Repeat 2 until they stop or escalate.

The French would absolutely do this, the thing you propose is so beyond the pale (even now) that the only conclusion is that the French would be next.

Can it hit us?

Absolutely. Submarine launched and with 10000km range it doesn’t even have to be in open seas. Now France would get obliterated too in response but we’re talking a scenario where the US has already « deleted » Italy so the game theory leans fatalistic

They are quite precise - a hundred meters or so. Air bursts just do more damage.