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But this doesn't prevent ridiculous referendums, like the one about immigration. It shifts the responsibility to the people, true but who cares about who does what? We must care about the results - the society we live in.

It's all about media. I will always blame the media for being extremely biased in whatever they do. I cannot mention today one objective and inquiring media. They ALL report what people already know or what they want to know. Democracy without objective media is oligarchy.



I'm not sure which 'ridiculous' referendum you mean. There have been two referendums in Switzerland during the recent years about evicting immigrants who have been convicted for heavy crimes. The first one was approved, the second more harsh one was rejected by the voters.

But why call a referendum ridiculous? I guess it is primarily because you don't agree with the proposal that the referendum is about. And because you don't agree with the proposal, you feel that there should not even be a referendum about it? That means that you think your opinion is more valuable than a possible majority of the voters. Isn't that an egocentric point of view?


Exactly the one about expulsion of foreigner who are criminals.

According to Wikipedia: "Foreigners who commit a crime would be automatically expelled from the country, regardless of the severity of the crime." [0]

I don't know the laws in Switzerland, but I can tell you that in Germany if they catch you without the train ticket for three times, you can potentially go to jail. In Switzerland, if such a law existed (I don't know), such a person would be expelled. This is ridiculous to me, because in a life span anything can happen. If you commit rape, homicide, break-ins, I can understand. It's the "regardless" that makes me wonder how welcome foreigners are. Although "ridiculous" might be the wrong term, I think that such a referendum should not even exist. Why was it even thought about? Why the "regardless"? What's wrong with us humans? Foreigners come, make your country richer - especially foreigners, PHD, master students, and highly skilled employees - and that's how you pay them back? Treating them like if they were worse than animals? "If you fuck up, go away".

I don't doubt the effectiveness of referendums, although I come from a country in which they hardly have an impact. I really appreciate Switzerland's method, as it keeps its citizens closer and more interested to politics. However, I am still of the idea that news can corrupt democracy pretty much everywhere, no matter how it's implemented - as long as citizens are the main responsible for the elected people or laws.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016


So you are referring to the second referendum about expelling immigrants, the one that was rejected.

I don't see what is so negative about this event. People got a chance to vote, and voted with quite a convincing majority (58%) against the proposal. Isn't that good? It shows that the majority of people, despite all populism and superficial media coverage, are still making the most human decision.


I didn't say referendums are useless/worthless. I just wanted to point out that your argumentation

> This is because in Switzerland there have always been referendums. That really makes a difference on how people see their laws and regulations.

seems not to take into account that media are highly biased, and these do have an impact on people. Referendums are not the solution, but just a different way to express your (?) own opinion. When your opinions are shaped by media (because they inevitably are), then you see, it's not the implementation (referendum/yes/no) the problem/solution, but how people perceive reality.

In a country where media work, you wouldn't have had such a referendum, not because of different opinions, but because people wouldn't feel threatened by foreigners (due to media) - or possibly, you would have a fairer request: send away only the ones who commit high crimes. I am sure that it would have been successful with at least 70% of "yes".

58% of people means 6/10 - this might translate to: 4 people don't like immigrants/don't feel safe due to foreigners.




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