This sets such a dangerous precedent, and further emboldens those who contend that the Jewish influence in media and Industry (particularly in entertainment, Law, and Media) is absolute. And was portrayed by a John Stewart, himself a Jew, so poignantly [0] nearly 10 years ago--note how these two conflicts are still ongoing and ask yourself how we got here.
How this nation allows for the condemnation of the injustices of the Vietnam war, Afghanistan or Iraq under the premise of free speech but will not allow for those to oppose the vile acts unleashed by the IDF (an entirely different nations military) alone is why this should be condemned.
Say what you will about them voicing a poorly informed opinion if you must, but it ask yourself: should it lead to offers being revoked and if so what precedent does it set?
I get these are (often) the children of privilege and nepotism is what most have in common, but still, this is appalling: it's similar to what happened in Tokyo University during the student riots back in the late 60s during Vietnam, people are perplexed how they instilled such a conformist mindset in the abhorrent Japanese corporate culture, and blacklisting students was one of the main ways they did it.
I don't have a bias anymore, I was once pro-Palestinian after seeing the IDF use white phosphorus on children in Gaza but after withholding aid and the subsequent bombings during COVID in '21 I think somethings are rooted much deeper in the Human psyche and are beyond help when people are still willing to let people die for claims of the 'Holy Land,' you'd think that after so much death and despair they would have at least agreed to a ceasefire and allowed for aid to enter during a pandemic but were denied and then bombed. Even now I just see this as senseless violence and a waste of Human Life, but just like in Bucha there will be a narrative created about how this was warranted somehow.
>Say what you will about them voicing a poorly informed opinion if you must
how do you differentiate between poorly informed opinions and poorly formed morals ?
(in this specific case poorly informed opinion (if this is what it is) may lead to offer been revoked due to inability to perform research. sounds like a must for a law firm)
> in this specific case poorly informed opinion...
It's hard to not see the IDF as a barbarous relic of it's own collective trauma from the Holocaust at this point; I personally think they are just as appalling as the German Nazis themselves and the US enables and funds this for Geo-political strategy: I believe in free speech and feel that I can make this argument without impunity as it's based entirely from decades of continual atrocities against Palestinians and overt crimes against Humanity (withholding life critical aid in a pandemic), and international killing of aid workers/activists (flotilla) documented the use of banned munitions on children as they regard them as less than Human while creating an overt surveillance state and exports this tech to other nations to use to monitor their citizens etc... and is only possible because there exists a sort of exceptional situation for Israel, but is it really any different than how the CCP treats the Uhigyers? I don't, and I think both should be condemned for their actions in a Tribunal for Crimes against Humanity alongside Putin's Russia.
Except Israel gets to quell any dissent on the topic for fear of being regarded antisemitic which ultimately is used to justify their actions; just so it's clear I find the actions of Hamas reprehensible and vile, but that 'party for Peace' was only a couple of miles from the Gaza border; tell me under what possible distorted form of reality can this be justified? It was noted that the sound of the music was likely heard in Gaza it was so close.
This is pretty much the conclusion that a Canadian UN peace keeping intern working in Palestine and Israel relations came to when we worked together on an unrelated job: that the victims often become the abuser and Gaza is a perfect example of how that has occurred in my Life-time. And that is what is taking place once more seeing innocent lives lost for the actions of a political extreme
minority; it is these kind of actions that have made me an anarchist in the end, as it is always normal people who suffer most in these systems.
That problem in-lies that a forced consensus is made: by not supporting the IDF/Israel inhumane actions, let alone claiming to be Pro-Palestine, it's made into a false equivalence of thinking you are are pro-Hamas, which is only possible if the overt censorship that I'm worried about is prevalent.
If a Law firm cannot distinguish that its a more nuanced matter, but will instead crumble under such pressure one has to ask 'how come' and 'why' doesn't it? I think this a matter of censorship, with much more dire underlying issues, more than it is anything else.
> tell me under what possible distorted form of reality can this be justified? It was noted that the sound of the music was likely heard in Gaza it was so close
Right. The loud noise and improperly dressed young girls angered Hamas so they went out on kill and rape rampage, makes sense.
We could track reprisals against reprisals against reprisals all day long without unraveling anything. But it's dangerously misleading to suggest that this is purely about what happened in the 1940s. Israel has to deal with the fact that this attack has a lot of precedent.
There is no fair analysis of Israel's actions which does not take this into account. They have very good reason to think that without the actions you're condemning that attacks like this one would occur every day.
the funny part, that you wrote a very long post that tries to be "nuanced", yet, you are missing so many nuances and facts that it's not too different from average headline of "israel performs genocide"
i just saw fascinating thread on /r/politics when somebody, obviously arab, from one of the poorer countries probably tried to explain to other people what is middle east and how it clicks. he was blamed for trying to gaslight and writing funfiction.
unless you live this world day to day, from inside, i am not sure if you can form an informed opinion because so many things are lost. so many nuances. so many day-to-day facts that even if they will appear in western media they will loose in process most of facts. even on freaken wikipedia list of terror acts in city where i lived misses like half of them. including the one on bus stop next to my school which served only kids.
i am not going to argue with you or try to point on all the things that you missed in your well thought out post. i did enough of it on kuro5hin. i mostly healed of "somebody is wrong on the internet".
time to concentrate on not crying for people on both side of conflict, for sake of my ukrainian wife. she had enough of crying of her own in last 2 years
Everybody has their own gaze with which they judge what they see.
As someone who has been following world politics since young age and really would love to see this seemingly everlasting conflict resolved and human suffering on all sides reduced, my prefered solution would be one where the Palestinians are alive, free and lost all incentives to carry out terrorist attacks so that both sides in this conflict can finally attempt to embrace what they have in common instead of fighting each other.
My worry is that this is not something a big part of Israel even wants to attempt — or maybe they lost the faith that this could ever be possible — so they want the Palestinians to just be gone.
The problem with wanting a group of people to "just be gone" is that there is no ethical, no clean way of doing it and the act of even attempting it would produce new problems of unspeakable proportions.
If you talk about the small things, the terrorist attacks that didn't make it to wikipedia, I am sure your Palestinian counterpart would talk about similar things from their daily lives that make living hell for them or collective punishment they received just for being part of a certain ethnic group. You might mention a relative that got killed in a terrorist attack, they might mention a relative that got killed in a raid that happened before or after.
And both of you are of course right and anybody not from the region (like me) would have a hard time to make something of that competition of suffering. But I don't think that this competition is going to solve anything and winning it isn't worth it.
Without having people on both sides rising above and extending an olive branch this won't end well. Granted, it still might end, but I don't feel well to see the people who had to experience the unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust to solve their problems in a way that results in a group of other people "being gone". This would remain a stain on Israel forever, just like the Holocaust should remain a stain on Austria and Germany forever.
> My worry is that this is not something a big part of Israel even wants to attempt — or maybe they lost the faith that this could ever be possible — so they want the Palestinians to just be gone.
Which sides wants the other "gone" ? If the Gazans had the power to do it I have no doubt they would kill hundreds of thousands of Israelis. I don't understand how you can even deny it. The only thing stopping them, for now, is lack of ability.
There are countrless statements, which you also see paraded in other countries for that matter, that want the destruction of Israel. Official voices included.
From the river to the sea... is not just another lifestyle position. I would argue that you might not have followed the conflict too closely.
Gaza did get more autonomy. They even had the chance to found their own country. They responded with war and I don't think there can be an alternative "history" to that.
>My worry is that this is not something a big part of Israel even wants to attempt — or maybe they lost the faith that this could ever be possible — so they want the Palestinians to just be gone
you are kind wrong. majority of population realists. everybody knows that palestinians don't go anywhere. there are no majority opinion in favor of "genociding" palestinians. majority of population was excited to hear news about potential normalization with saudia and that this process may also force some kind of normalization of palestinian authority. i don't even know what you mean by "group of other people been gone", because it's most definitely not mainstream in israel. and not near mainstream. it's fringe position in israeli society
people are tiered in israel. people want for all this to be over. people want normalization with pa. with lebanon. not sure about syria though.
>I am sure your Palestinian counterpart would talk about similar things from their daily lives that make living hell for them or collective punishment they received just for being part of a certain ethnic group
everything that happens anywhere tend to be widely publicized. "collective punishment" is a good way to take very complicated situation that developed over last 100 years and reduce is to two words. kudos
and my points wasn't about competition of suffering. my point was that if you don't live there you don't really get to understand where people on both sides stand and what exactly happens because press doesn't really cover it to depth
> you are kind wrong. majority of population realists.
I have no doubt about that. If you read my post I did not use the word majority anywhere. I used "a big part". Now the obvious question is: how big is "big" from the perspective of such a conflict?
I don't think it needs many hardliners on both sides to keep the thing going indefinitely. It then just needs many who shrug and let them do it.
> collective punishment" is a good way to take very complicated situation that developed over last 100 years and reduce is to two words. kudos
Discussing a topic always entails reducing things into a shorter, abstract form, otherwise you cannot discuss them at all. We make maps of the landscape in order to orient, carrying around the landscape in 1:1 turned out to be impractical.
So you can (and should) reason against my choice of abstraction and tell me why you think it is a poor choice that doesn't describe the reality on the ground (and I might learn something from your answer). But demanding that I can't use abstraction at all and demanding the impossible is less productive.
I chose the abstraction of "collective punishment" very carefully. The Gaza strip is a densely populated area with a big fraction of the population being kids below a age where they could even understand what is going on. Those kids have been born into that conflict and they did nothing wrong — just like Israeli kids that got slaughtered by Hamas did nothing wrong.
Collective punishments like the terrorist attacks of Hamas or Israel turning off the water and electricity for the Gaza strip or bombing their homes (be it as collateral or on purpose) is a good way to create the next wave of violence and the next generation of terrorists.
I get that the reality on the ground is important. But the reality on the ground was also what perpetuated the Thirty Years' War — which is why I proposed taking a step back and out of it is the only way to put a stop to it. The complexities violent conflicts produce are the reason why it is hard to end them. Historically without a rule of law you could have cycles of revenge and counter-revenge going on for centuries. But what happens if we are not talking about two enemy clans, but a state and a people? If you ask me, the state has to step up and attempt the impossible: Protecting the rule of law and human rights while still protecting it's people from the violence of asymmetric warfare.
I have enough friends that live in the area (mostly on the Israeli side tho) to have an idea what this conflict can entail on a personal level, but that doesn't mean one cannot have a more systemic look at things.
majority... big part.. small part... fringe minority.. how big is small and how small is big. gotcha.
this awkward moment when /r/worldnews has a more nuanced discussion using historical facts and not newspaper clippings.
idf speaker btw just said that there is a team analyzing uploaded videos using face recognition software (this is topical, right ?) in order to find all those who participated and to punish them. lets add extrajudicial killings (did I name it right ?) to list of things that complicate this conflict.
I see stuff like this, and the first place my mind goes isn't to the antisemitism (it really never dies), or student-run organizations saying dumb things (again, not surprising).
The first place my mind goes, is... does Harvard not teach history classes?
It doesn’t take much to reject someone else’s accounting of history.
In fact, almost every conflict involves competing histories because they’re an essential part of establishing legitimacy for a cause. People put a lot of effort into developing persuasive ones.
Histories can do a better or worse job of relating facts, but they’re never authoritative. Activists will always have their own, as will the authorities that they are agitating against.
And not only that, a lot of history involves interpretation of motives, which attempts to boil down rather complex, multi-faceted decisions into one overarching motive which makes it easy to paint historical events in very positive/negative lights.
All histories are a simplification of reality into a digestible and memorable form. It is never the complete story. The further back you go, the more of a caricature historical figures become.
Based on different discussion here and on different /r/ it looks like curriculums do not really cover british and french adventures in middle east/africa and the outcomes. it feels like only people who live in one of the countries that were impacted/created by drawing lines on maps actually familiar with history of the region
Most importantly? That history is nuanced and that no single event determines all of history. That every country invaded and conquered every single cm of land they currently occupy, with only a few stupid exceptions in particularly inhospitable places (like I believe Iceland).
Harvard has been focused on cultivating leftist ideologues, so no, they don't teach history as you might understand it. They teach rewritten history, where the West are only evil colonialists, everything wrong with the world is because of "the patriarchy," and capitalism is to be fought and destroyed.
A standard subset of this ideology is "Israel bad."
I want to seriously question what you mean by "History".
The history I understand places blame on the British Empire and the neo Israeli State.
My understanding of this situation is that terrorism is initiated by Islamic jihadists. The environment that allows those jihadists to thrive is created by Israel.
The Gaza strip, is the poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.
actually... after arabs rejected partition plan and Israel fought it independence war, Egypt took over Gaza strip and Jordan over entire west bank. Instead of establishing there Palestinian state Jordan annexed west bank at 1950 and Egypt fenced off gaza strip with all palestinians. For next 20 years it was the state of affairs till Israel took over the territories in 1967.
So maybe it's Egypt fault ?
When peace agreement with Egypt was signed, it refused to take back Gaza.
So maybe it's Egypt Fault ?
And extra fun fact: there is UN report dated 1982 or something which described effects of Israeli occupation. The outcome was modern infrastructure, literacy rate jumping up by tens of percent, infant deaths falling down and life expectancy going up by 10 or 15 years.
If this is " poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.", well...
The amount of revisionist history here is a bit absurd.
Let us make it clear. Israel outright denied multiple partition maps. Israel had the advantage of being on the side designing the UN maps too. It is incredibly well known that most of the maps proposed by Israel included Jerusalem as exclusively Israeli territory.
They also allocated more land to Israel than the Arabs, despite having less than half the population.
On average, 60% of the land, going to less than 30% of the population. No fucking shit the Arabs were having none of it.
So no, that's a completely stupid and nonsense argument.
Egypt closing the border? You forgot the time period. Everyone has closed borders. Egypt was one of them. And either way, this is irrelevant. Israel kicked out Palestinians, not Egypt.
Further more, you claim the increase in education is some sort of Israeli achievement. It is not.
It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India.
Finally, Gaza itself.
Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank.
Because Gaza is a literal 1:1 open air prison.
Digging wells is illegal, all Gaza water is owned by Israel
Fishing is illegal. All water rights are owned by Israel. (Not a joke)
Exports are almost completely illegal. Imports as well.
Business is mostly illegal, primarily to "stop hamas from acquiring funds".
Immigration is also illegal. You are only allowed to leave with a work visa. Good luck getting one.
Education is practically non existent. Ironically, Israel has literally demolished multiple schools in Gaza.
People born in Gaza basically cannot leave. So you have a poorly educated, frustrated population.
Tons of spare time, nothing they can do. And then along comes Hamas. "Hey kiddo, wanna see the outside world?"
> Digging wells is illegal, all Gaza water is owned by Israel
That's not true. There are over 10,000 wells in Gaza. Hamas controls who is allowed to dig wells in Gaza [0] – Israel lacks effective control over the territory of Gaza so has no ability to stop anyone from digging a well there.
The problem Gaza has, is a lot of the water from the wells is undrinkable, in part due to intrusion of seawater into the aquifer. Israel extracts a lot of water from the same aquifer further inland, which is argued worsens the seawater intrusion problem. However, desalination is used to deal with this problem, and international donors have spent significant sums on providing desalination equipment to communities in Gaza. That requires electricity (of which there is not always a reliable supply), and parts and consumables for repair and maintenance (for which there can sometimes be difficulties getting Israel to permit their import.)
> Fishing is illegal
According to [1]: "The total catch in Gazan waters has risen in recent years, according to the Palestinian bureau of statistics, from 2,322.9 metric tons in 2006 to 3,943.4 in 2019, when Israel expanded the permitted fishing zone to 15 nautical miles in some areas from six, but still short of the 20 nautical miles agreed to under the Oslo accords, the 1990s peace agreement that was supposed to lay the path for Palestinian statehood."
It is true that Israel has a negative impact on Gaza's fishing industry – through limiting how far out to sea Gazans are permitted to fish, and by restricting import of goods needed to repair boats, many of which are classified by the Israeli government as "dual use" technologies – but a 2019 catch of over 3900 metric tons is hardly "fishing is illegal"
> That's not true. There are over 10,000 wells in Gaza. Hamas controls who is allowed to dig wells in Gaza [0] – Israel lacks effective control over the territory of Gaza so has no ability to stop anyone from digging a well there.
False. All water in the Gaza strip, is explicitly controlled by the Israeli state. Specifically, this stems from the fact that the construction of wells requires a permit from Israel. More specifically, anything constructed without a specific, israeli approved permit, is demolished. This applies to both the WestBank and Gaza. [0][1]
[0]https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-demolishes-...
> False. All water in the Gaza strip, is explicitly controlled by the Israeli state. Specifically, this stems from the fact that the construction of wells requires a permit from Israel.
In practice, no Israeli permits are needed to construct a well in Gaza. Nobody asks Israel for one and Israel doesn’t give anyone one.
Hamas says you need a permit from them to build a well in the Gaza Strip. Since they exercise de facto on-the-ground military control over the populated territory of Gaza, they are much better placed to enforce their laws on the topic than Israel is.
> More specifically, anything constructed without a specific, israeli approved permit, is demolished. This applies to both the WestBank and Gaza.
De facto, it doesn’t apply in Gaza. People dig wells in Gaza all the time and build things all the time. Nobody ever asks Israel for a permit. They may be forced however to get a permit from the Hamas-controlled Gaza government. If you don’t get the permit from Hamas, armed Hamas men may come knocking on your door. Whereas, Israeli troops were never going to invade Gaza over a mere well.
As evidence it applies in Gaza, you are citing an Israeli air strike on Gaza’s water supply infrastructure. I’ve never heard Israel attempt to justify such attacks as enforcing its laws on wells. Rather, it seems clear the attack was justified as a reprisal for a Hamas attack on Israel. Whatever the rights or wrongs of that reprisal, it has nothing to do with water policy in Gaza during those periods when the Gaza Strip and Israel have been (relatively speaking) at peace.
> As evidence it applies in Gaza, you are citing an Israeli air strike on Gaza’s water supply infrastructure. I’ve never heard Israel attempt to justify such attacks as enforcing its laws on wells. Rather, it seems clear the attack was justified as a reprisal for a Hamas attack on Israel. Whatever the rights or wrongs of that reprisal, it has nothing to do with water policy in Gaza during those periods when the Gaza Strip and Israel have been (relatively speaking) at peace.
This doesn't change the simple fact that Israel sites the lack of a building permit as an excuse to destroy anything built in Gaza. (Or the WestBank)
There are far more instances of this, including some where they just pour concrete into the wells. Unfortunately, English speaking outlets don't really report on these incidents. So the only english "sources" that can be found are heavily slanted Muslim propaganda articles.
The other sources are actually reports from the Knesset, which I also can't read without a translator. (Which is why I didn't link either) Specifically, the source I am referencing here are IWA (Israel Water Authority) reports on illegal water well drilling. They release a report every year. They tend to get referenced by NGOs in articles relating to Gaza or the West Bank.
In my opinion, what matters here is enforcement. Israel does enforce their rights on water sources. Even water sources inside of Gaza/WestBank. The lack of targeted strikes in Gaza doesn't mean they don't claim control over all water sources in the territories. (IE: China and the South China Sea debacle)
there are too many alternative facts in your post . i will refer to only one. or two
>It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India.
gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools.
"global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen
>Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank.
so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas.
No hamas > no rockets&mortars flying to Israel > people can live a good life.
> gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools. "global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen
Yea no. That is actually just not relevant. Once again, this is a global trend! Massive infrastructure projects, massive new investments in the economy. Post war economic miracle.
Global trends are literally set by people. Literacy rates were increasing rapidly during that time. Medical technologies saw massive investment and growth due to the experience of, and aftermath of a global war.
> so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas.
This is literally my point! Israel can, and has that ability to fight Hamas in the west bank!
And now because Gaza is a convenient political tool, the PA have started losing votes to Hamas in recent elections in the west bank!
None of that would happen, were it not for keeping Gaza as a literal open air prison!
Your view is literally the opposite of reality.
> Good Life => No reason to join radical terrorist group => Hamas weakens.
on west bank 98% of job is done by PA. not by IDF. Its very rare occasion for Idf to get involved.
West bank and gaza in general are very different places with "different" population. I did hear in past sentiments from palestinians on west bank that gazans are uneducated animals. This can partly be attributed to what I wrote before: Jordan annexed west bank and kinda tried "uplift" population while Egypt let gaza rot for 20 years.
Israel couldn't handle hamas in gaza and this is why it pulled out. Just like it pulled out of south lebanon that had "sympathetic" south lebanon army.
After pulling out of gaza israel tried to keep control of gaza<>egypt border in order to prevent smuggling via tunnels but it wasn't sustainable without creating depopulated strip a couple of miles deep. there were considered "light versions" of it, but supreme court prohibited doing so and army realized that it pointless anyway. so israel pulled out of this area as well.
when israel pulled out there was expression "gaza can become either singapore or mogadishu, and it's up to gazans to decide". after israel pulled out all the agricaltural equipment that was left behind (also was controversial but there were hope that it will help to develop industry/economy) was trashed, houses were looted and hamas proceeded with shooting even more rockets and mortars.
> on west bank 98% of job is done by PA. not by IDF. Its very rare occasion for Idf to get involved.
That doesn't really change what I said? Israel and the Palestinian Authority both fight Hamas. But the state of Gaza is acting as a counter. It is slowly tipping the scales towards Hamas in the West Bank. Israel and PA cooperate when it comes to dealing with Hamas in the West Bank.
> when israel pulled out there was expression "gaza can become either singapore or mogadishu
This might just be the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Singapore is what it is due to it's geographical location and having a benevolent dictator. It is under all circumstances, impossible for gaza to become a singapore of the middle east.
That position is taken by the Suez Canal, which we all know is controlled by Egypt.
The concept of freedom of speech explicitly states that no punitive consequences are allowed as the result of speech. Of course there is the trivial reality that there are consequences to everything and people also have a right to disassociate with you, but at that point you indeed violate the principle. That isn't a crime, but universities should have a higher standard.
The latest rather pop-interpretation of freedom of speech is rather stupid, especially in an academic context. So far so that I believe that you aren't really fit for academic education if you really believe that.
I'd like to read the full statement. Of course CNN doesn't link to it or provide the full text. The actions of Hamas are beyond unconscionable, but unconscionable acts by Israel in the past arguably caused the recent terrorist attacks.
Playboy fired pornstar Mia Kalifa for supporting hamas actions. Could you please help me understand, if this is cancel culture or moral backbone of USA ?
'cancel culture' either doesn't exist, or is a new means of explaining an old phenomenon, depending on what you mean. I honestly immediately loose respect for anyone using it non-ironically, because it's just an obvious ploy to manipulate public opinion.
It feels one-dimensional to assess someone on what they said or did once in some context & make big assumptions about them for the rest of their lives based off a narrowly interpreted negative viewpoint. People are complex and reducing responses to brutal cruel unforgiving blacklists is the shit of nightmares.
ORRR ... you can just be careful with the shit you write online. You know, try to act as if you're talking to real people on the street(where there's usually more consequences). I don't know why we have to tolerate people acting like psychotic assholes online just because it's online.
I find that the many of the collective western reaction to this recent events is no different from some the reaction of russians against people opposing the war in Ukraine.
In Germany police will harras/arrest you if you are wearing Palestinian flag even before this events. They even ban any try to organize any event in nakba (anniversary of Palestinians losing their land) [1]
There is a suggestion to the English police that waving the Palestinian flag could/should be a criminal act [2]
Biden is spreading false accusation trying to de-humanize a party in the conflict [3]. He is sending one of the biggest aircraft carriers in the world against people the vast majority of whom never even seen a plane in their life (except the Isreali planes bombing them).
The Isreali defence minister is literally using a language that was used during previous genocidal events. He literally said thet they are in a fight with "human animals" [4]
The western leades are giving a white/plain check for isreal to do whatever it want without check. This will definitely lead to a massacre no matter how you see it. If you want to justify it as they weren't the one who started. Well I have many bridges to sell you.
But really the question is that. lets assume a world where every Palestinian drop their weapon and never act in violence. Will the US, EU and others come and force isreal to let them have their state?
Will the two state solution ever be implemented as a good gesture from the occupiers? Did George Washington kick out the British with appealing to their good well?
Of course there will be an explosion. If you took people's land, treat them like shit, put them in an open prison and bomb them every couple of months then they will explode. And if they do and you keep doing it with more intensity with the support of the Western world as we see now then you will not expect things to get better.
Can isreal destroy every inch in gaza?
yes they can. They can kill a million people there. They can even nuke the shit our of gaza. will this stop Palestinian resistance? Of course no. They are cornered. You did not leave anything to them. They don't have freedom, good life or anything. You want to kick them out of their land. Isreal was never serious about two state solutions before and definitely not now with the rise of their right wing.
Death to arab is a usual slogan by extremist settlers.[5]. Heck even they have a minister in the government who say this in plain sight [6]. It is hurting that a lot of Isreali civilians are killed in recent actions but lets be self consistent and consider that both in pure numbers and with alot suffering over decades you will not see even one year without having an order of magnitude more Palestinian civilians getting killed by Isreali troops and settlers.
If the west is serious about human life then it would be a human life. If the western leaders are thinking using a crusader mind that these are arabs and Muslims (The other people, the enemy)then lets be honest about that. Again we see the hypocritical treatment of human life.
In this conflict there are root causes. If anyone is serious about anything regarding that. Then they will look into these causes and try to address them. Until then there will be violence and except if justice is served or until the world observe Palestinians gets eliminated until their last soul, things will never improve.
And yes, this is a very political comment but it is more of a common sense that a lot of people are missing. A lot of people even don't want to address that they have a bias against us because we are the other. The people of middle east, arabs and Muslims were for centuries the other, the enemy of the west. Things has improved and I am not saying that this is true in absolute terms but there are a hidden bias (and sometimes an obvious feeling of superiority) against those people. If you deny it by words but all your actions and alignment are doing the opposite it doesn't mean much.
I hope thaf one day things will improve and that one day justice will be served without the madness that we are seeing now.
> The Isreali defence minister is literally using a language that was used during previous genocidal events. He literally said thet they are in a fight with "human animals" [4]
Because that kind of language is a distraction from the way that actively supporting Hamas to keep Palestinians divided even despite their terrorism and increasing capacity has long been the Netanyahu (and for even longer, Israeli) policy.
Heck, Hamas largely exists because Israel funded the Islamist network that grew into it to weaken the PLO's support among Palestinians decades ago, and supporting Hamas as a counterweight to first the PLO and later the PA has been a long-term policy that periodically blows up in Israel's face, and when it does, it becomes very important to distract from the policy that led up to it.
Hamas largely exists because Palestinians give them political power. Same way Putin's party exists because the people of Russia give him political power
he was referring to hamas. not to population of gaza in general.
people in israel are somewhat emotional those days. biggest jewish civilian life loss since wwII in one day. if you extrapolate it to us population, it's if 37000 civilians are murdered in 1 day in brutal way. pretty much everbody in israel either lost somebody or knows somebody who did.
Does this Make the Isreali military human animals? because in pure numbers they killed much more Palestinians. And much more per capita from Palestine population over the years?
All the comments (and down votes) are not responding to my comment in a good faith and ignoring my core message is that it is not about isreal loses this week. The conflict root causes are the injustice. You cannot for example start the events in Ukraine from Ukrainian attacks on kirch bridge and crimea that cause civilians casualties. This will be dishonest and all people will agree on this.
But somehow isreal always gets exception and a pass for anything.
And someone here described my comment as propaganda although I just described facts. How much Palestinian needs to die for your liking so that you will consider this genocide. How much injustice do you want them to suffer? Cutting food, water supply and prevention of any aid to enter while doing mass bombing is not enough.
The US military nuked two cities full of civilians and half of the American still consider that this was a good thing to end a war. The logic ia being used by some people and I am afraid that it will be employed against the Palestinian population.
Ignoring all my comment and facts I provided via western sources and the lie spread by biden in plain sight and down voting is just dishonest.
It will be always the case that in the western world the life of Palestinians are cheap. The history begins always at the point where isreal wants.
You support apartheid state that declare itself as it is. The world is watching all that in silence. The classic video from 2021 describes an interaction in Jerusalem between settler and Palestinian evicted from their home and bonus point a quick interview with him. [1]
being blind to all this is something unbelievable.
Amazing how, given a clear demonstration of right-wing "cancel culture" in action, the immediate response is to invent a purely hypothetical scenario to vilify left-wing "cancel culture." A clear demonstration -- as if one was needed -- that the right's objection to "cancel culture" is that they believe it is a tool only they are allowed to wield.
Apropos of nothing else, it sure has been…interesting to witness nearly all of the big name right wing (and many of the larger fringe right wing) accounts on X immediately abandon the America First rhetoric and time travel back to the year 2015.
